Abduction Digest, Number 66 Tuesday, July 7th 1992 (C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved. *****B*U*L*L*E*T*I*N***B*U*L*L*E*T*I*N***B*U*L*L*E*T*I*N***B*U*L*L*E*T*I*N***** We're Back! Approximately a month ago, the list server for the ParaNet digests was taken out of service. Since then we have been working hard to find a new home for the mailing list and the FTP archives. We are pleased to announce that we have been successful at both tasks. While the digests were out of service, the FidoNet echo traffic has continued, and we have faithfully stored it up for you. In order not to overflow the mail queues for those of you with restricted disk space, we will be doling out the backlogged digests at the rate of two or three a day until they are all completed. As far as we know, no traffic has been lost, so you should be able to get completely caught up on the various discussions by simply reading the digests in order as they come out. The FTP archives for the ParaNet digests are now located on Internet host "grind.isca.uiowa.edu". The InfoPara digests are in subdirectory /info/paranet/infopara; the Abduction digests are in subdirectory /info/paranet/abduct. Both are available via anonymous FTP. We would like to thank all of you for your patience and your concern while we made the transition. Please let us know if we can serve you in any way, or if you experience any difficulties with our new setup. ******************************************************************************* Today's Topics: "Vision" Re: "Vision" M.I.T. meeting Physically present Again MIT conference Who is an Abductee? Who is an abductee? Again Silent Invasion Silent Invasion Crop Circles in Indiana? What's happening What's Happening Ring's "Omega Project" Intruders Abduction Meaning Who is an Abductee? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (John Burke) Subject: "Vision" Date: 24 Jun 92 07:00:00 GMT Linda Bird writes: > > Well, I just wanted to share this; it truly was > horrifying--just imagine the scene in your mind. Any > ideas? Comments? It seems hard to imagine why you would have been scared, but I guess it's just a matter of personality. Some of us *enjoy* things like that. Anyway, I probably would have tried to stick my finger in there. Typical *guy* thing to do, huh? :-) -- John -- John Burke - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Burke@f9.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird) Subject: Re: "Vision" Date: 25 Jun 92 06:13:00 GMT Hi John, Yep, sticking your finger in the hole I saw would have been something a guy would do. The thing is, I could see depth to this hole, and I probably could HAVE put my finger in it. **Yikes!** Linda -- Linda Bird - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don.Newman@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Don Newman) Subject: M.I.T. meeting Date: 26 Jun 92 14:57:00 GMT I understand that a slect group of abduction researchers(along with some abducties) had a meeting at M.I.T. about mid June. Please pass on what the agenda and what the conclusions,if any, were. Thanks Don. -- Don Newman - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Newman@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield) Subject: Physically present Date: 26 Jun 92 02:45:00 GMT The IUR has just accepted an article by myself, describing the full story of the Maureen Puddy case from Australia in 1972/73. It is scheduled to appear in the next IUR. -- Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill.Skiles@p7.f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Skiles) Subject: Again Date: 26 Jun 92 07:55:00 GMT David, we had another experience last night, I think. I went to bed late last night as we are on vacation around the house. Stayed up till 2:00 a.m. and couldn't get to sleep. The fear came over me that the (whatevers) were going to return. I just couldn't fall asleep and kept waking up feeling that they were near. About 3:00 a.m. I woke up my wife and told her that I was feeing afraid. She said she would stay awake for a while. I finally fell asleep after that and all seemed to be just my imagination until..... This morning when my wife said to me that although she was FULLY awake last night, for some reason she fell imediately asleep and she never does that. She said she had a strange dream last night. I asked her what? She said she dreamed that her and I were in our bed BUT we were floating in some kind of atmosphere. She said it was thicker than air but lighter than water. And she said that we were not alone. I said what do you mean? She said that floating around the bed there were 6-8 GREY dolphins with BIG BLACK eyes. And they were just starring at us. She said she was looking at them and thinking, "this isn't right." She said that she was also wondering why their eyes, the dolphin's, were in front. She said that until now she thought that maybe I was just getting carried away with this stuff, but now she's scared. We live out in the middle of nowhere, in the country. There is ample opportunity to be visited any night. She wanted me to ask you if you had come up with ANY kind of detriment. Is there any way to fight this? P.S. What about the questionaire? Thanks for any help. Bill -- Bill Skiles - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Bill.Skiles@p7.f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs) Subject: MIT conference Date: 28 Jun 92 07:39:15 GMT The participants in the MIT conference were sworn to uphold a vow of noncommunication about the content of the MIT conference until the proceedings are published. While I have problems with this, I did in fact sign the "oath" which binds me. However, it was pretty much what you would expect in an abduction conference. I don't know when the proceedings will be out, but I expect by the end of the year. Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2 -- David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs) Subject: Who is an Abductee? Date: 28 Jun 92 08:18:29 GMT I must say that I am quite puzzled by your defense of the idea that anybody who claims to be an abductee is therefore an abductee. I had assumed that you would most certainly agree with my position that every case must be competently investigated before we can tell for sure what, if anything, happened. I am afraid that I must strongly disagree with your position. I believe that careful, systematic, investigation of each and every case, regardless of claims, and regardless even of consciously recalled memories, is of the utmost importance. Science will not be advanced without the development of methodology that will enable us to build the factual data to which you allude in your message. I am also quite astonished by your statement that "witnessed non-physical abductions involve all the elements of non-witnessed abductions." I am assuming that by "non-physical abductions" you mean those in which the person was witnessed to be physically in place durign the alleged event. I must say that in the 350 abductions that I have looked into and in the many hundreds that Budd Hopkins has investigated, the channeled abduction accounts, delusionary abduction accounts, invented abduction accounts, and the like, made by people who might think that they were abducted but who were not, are quite different and easily recognizable by an experienced researcher. You might wish to look at the books that Hopkins and I have written and compare them to the information contained in the non-physical abductions. I think that you will find that the answer to the question that you correctly ask about whether there is a difference between witnessed non-physical abductions and non-witnessed (or for that matter, witnessed) physical abductions, is most assuredly, yes. Keith Basterfield says that hypnosis is illegal in Australia unless performed by an M.D. and that there are very few of them in the country who have expressed any interest in doing this type of work. I think that this state of affairs has severely handicapped your effort to get to the truth of what is happening in each event. I hope that this will soon change. I closing, let me reiterate that there are people who think that they have been abducted and who have not. The Rodeghier definition is good as far as it goes, but it needs revising on several points not the least ow which is to allow for the role of investigation in all cases. We are still in the sorting-out stage of research and just because one researcher comes out with a definition does not mean that it is writ in stone forever. Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2 -- David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs) Subject: Who is an abductee? Date: 28 Jun 92 08:44:50 GMT The problem of telling whether a person is an abductee or is not is a matter of investigation and establishing a number of things about the person's credibility, motivations, and so forth. In many ways it is similar to the problems engendered by UFO researchers in the early 1950s when they wre trying to decide whether a person had actually seen a UFO or not. Ultimately, deciding on the truthfulness of the witness depends on the patterns established by experience within the abduction phenomenon since the Hill case (or even Vilas Boas). Finding out exactly what happened on a detailed level is even more difficult. The patterns that I outlined in my book were the product of a great deal of digging, thinking, luck, acticulate abductees, and a touch of inspiration. Even then we have a problem. Now that the book is out it will be much easier to absorb the material and repeat it when inventing a bogus abduction tale. We all have to be even more careful than ever before. Of course we have many multiple abduction cases in which the person was abducted along with others. We have cases in which the witnesses were "switched off" and not abducted with others. We have a few cases in which there were uninvolved witnesses to an abduction event. The problem is what do we do with the great mass of cases in which the person was alone during the abduction event? Once again, we must rely on the patterns that have been established, the veracity of the witness, and so on. We do know quite a bit about what happens in an abduction now. It is not like we are floundering around with great masses of data that we do not know what to do with, although heaven knows that problem does exist. Still sorting out exactly what happens during an abduction is going to be a matter of standardizing methodology and education. We are still just beginning to do this but I think that before long we will have accomplished it. Right now, let us not get side-tracked into areas like "imaginal" realms or Strieberism. These are ideas thought up out of whole cloth without a particle of evidence to back them up. The overwhelming preponderance of the evidence suggests that the abduction event is a physical event that happens to victims. If we keep on the straight and narrow and investigate abductions from this perspective, I think that we will gain the most knowledge. If we go off into other directions, that is o.k., but let us not get confused about what is actually happening. There has already been an enormous amount of wheel spinning and I would hate to see others begin the spinning all over again. Just because a person dreams up a theory does not mean that it has any value and that it has to be taken seriously. Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2 -- David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marc.Michalik@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Marc Michalik) Subject: Again Date: 29 Jun 92 22:01:00 GMT Anyway to fight it? It may not sound practicle but I have been "taken" (I hate the word abducted because people think it's a big joke) and I think that I have found a way to prevent further "visits". Don't go to sleep when it is dark outside and carry a gun. Several reports that I have seen indicate that the EBEs avoid weapons like the plague. A large caliber pistol (such as a 9mm) in a shoulder holster should be sufficient. Most, if not all, abductions happen at night while in bed, if you don't go to sleep until 5:30 A.M. or so they don't have a chance to take you at night. I do these things now and haven't had any problems. But then, I was only taken once twelve years ago and hadn't had anymore problems anyway. I just feel better taking these precautions. -- Marc Michalik - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Marc.Michalik@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan.Decker@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Alan Decker) Subject: Silent Invasion Date: 2 Jul 92 01:24:00 GMT David, Many thanks and hats off to you for your fine effort, "Secret Life". As I can see you are aware, it is a work that is long past due. Best of luck getting more "professionals" to help out, also long past due. I called in on.... Sorry, will have to continue this message in another post. -- Alan Decker - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Alan.Decker@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan.Decker@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Alan Decker) Subject: Silent Invasion Date: 2 Jul 92 01:58:00 GMT David, to continue last message, I was about to say that I called in on Don's radio show when you guested, to protest your (and Don's) presumtion that "if the aliens were going to take over, they could have done so a long time ago, so at least we don't have to worry about that". I hope I didn't come across too strong, but it bothers me when anyone presumes to know the aliens motives, capabilities, or plans. Terrestrial chauvinism, if you will. I do not claim to be able to anticipate the aliens next move, but if I were invading an alien planet, even I can think of several reasons why a gradual, silent takeover would be preferable to an immediate, blast- em, war-of-the-worlds type scenario. While it is one of the most unpleasant possibilities to consider, it is a very real one, nonetheless. Alan -- Alan Decker - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Alan.Decker@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David.Brune@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Brune) Subject: Crop Circles in Indiana? Date: 2 Jul 92 17:58:00 GMT All, Has anyone heard or seen any reports lately of UFO sightings and/or crop circle reports in the Indiana area? David -- David Brune - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: David.Brune@f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (David Jacobs) Subject: What's happening Date: 1 Jul 92 06:59:02 GMT Bill, your wifes's behavior and dream are suspicious. It is impossible to tell exactly what has happened until proper, competent, investigation has been accomplished. Budd and I are going to be conducting a series of workshops around the country for psychiatrists and psychologists who are interested in learning more about the subject. I hope that eventually we can have somebody in your area who will be available to do this kind of work. I don't know exactly what happened the other night, but you and your wife can give each other the support that you both might require. It is important to be able to deal with this phenomenon with someone else. You are lucky to have this support because there are many who do not. The best I can say is that you are not alone, there are many, many, others who have had the same experiences that you have related before. I wish that I could just tell you what to do and then it would alleviate the situation, but unfortunately I can not. We just don't know what to do. We have no way of stopping it. When I work with people, I tell them that I cannot give physical control, the only thing that we can do is work toward intellectual and emotional control. If that is achieved, I think that I have won a victory. Hang on. Hold Tight. Let's see if we can up up with somebody in the near future who you can work with in your area. Incidentally, the questionnaire is in the mail. Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2 -- David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: David.Jacobs@f21.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: What's Happening Date: 3 Jul 92 17:42:01 GMT Although I realize that there is a limited amount of information which can be discussed about the recent MIT conference, I would appreciate your sharing with us what the goals and objectives were for that meeting. Thanks Dave. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug.Morrow@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Doug Morrow) Subject: Ring's "Omega Project" Date: 4 Jul 92 00:28:00 GMT David, I am in the process of reading Kenneth Ring's new book "The Omega Project". He presents some interesting thoughts on the relationship between UFO encounters and Near Death Experiences. Are you aware of his work? If so, do you have any comments on it? -- Doug Morrow - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Doug.Morrow@p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield) Subject: Intruders Date: 30 Jun 92 23:50:00 GMT The mini series "Intruders" is about to be shown this weekend down here in Australia. It will be interesting to see what affect this has on the reporting rate of abductions. The UFORA network has only recorded one possible new abduction case in the last few months. I'll keep you posted. -- Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pony.Godic@f6.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Pony Godic) Subject: Abduction Meaning Date: 2 Jul 92 08:38:00 GMT David, As Linda Bird's recent write up on the appearance of a space hole in a book evidences, almost everyone has had one or more bizarre experiences in life. Some are so way out, that no matter how hard you think, you can't find a meaning. I thought really hard on Linda's experience but could think of no plausible explanation. Anyway, my point is that when we have extraordinary experiences we seek an answer and on occasion that answer is itself extraordinary. Now, bearing in mind the public awareness of abduction phenomena, via the media and books, it seems possible to me that people are in danger of trying to understand unusual experiences in their lives using abduction indicators as a tool. I'm most defintely not saying here that abductions don't take place. I've seen some very compelling cases that really could not be understood in any other way than as abductions. On the other hand, I believe that psychological factors in a given person's personality may cause them to decide they've been abducted when they haven't. But, I also believe that any person who has a series of unexplained events in their background may, in a genuine search for meaning, tie them together as an abduction and I think it's important to be aware of this. To illustrate this, I can talk from my own experience: When I was about 7, I recall my younger sister being put to bed in the middle of the night. I saw her stand up in her cot and yet it also seemed to be me. The cot floated up into the air and there were brilliant stars shooting and flashing in pinks and greens and yellows etc. agaist the black night sky. Now I don't know why my younger sister was being put to bed late, but I've no doubt that I dreamed a particularly vivid dream and I even know the source. A "Rupert" book I had. (I don't know if you have these in the U.S. I think they're originally English. Rupert is a bear who wore clothes). A couple of years later, I was lying in bed one night and there were three people floating up around the upper walls. The ceilings were high. The people were invisible. They seemed to have no bodies, only big faces half in and half out the wall. There seemed to be 2 men and a woman. They were all discussing me. I listened curiously and next day told my parents about it. They told me that people who hear voices that aren't there end up in the nut house - end of Pony hearing voices. In about my early 20s (I'm 40 now), I was telling my younger brother and sister that I used to have this dream about how a UFO came over the back yard of where we used to live in the country as kids. I related that I was behind the tankstand behind the laundry and heard someone cry out and that I came running out to see the UFO. My younger sister said she had exactly the same dream, but she came out from a different directin to see it. In her dream, the aliens landed and got out of the UFO and, having paralysed her, came for her. My brother said he dreamed the same dream, but he came from another direction again. I always thought that terribly interesting. A few years later, I mentioned the dream, my brother not only didn't remember the dream, he didn't remember the discussion in which we realized we dreamed the same dream from different angles. My younger sister was very vague. I think it obvious that we all got caught up in the conversation and attached meaning where there was no meaning. Now to recent times. When Vladimir and I moved up here (from Adelaide to Cairns - literally from one end of Australia to the other) in mid November last year, I had 2 interesting experiences on the long stretch of road between Broken Hill and Neferti. At dusk I saw what can best be described as a Tasmanian Tiger, extinct on the Australian mainland as well as in Tasmania. A friend of mine submitted a report to the SA Museum and they said I did appear to see a Tasmanian Tiger even though they are extinct. Anyway, the stripes were in the wrong place and my sighting was of a creature that I feel was longer in body and tail, so I'm not going to claim a TT sighting, still it was an interesting experience to have had. But, it's not the relevant experience. That happened some time later in the dark. The road we were travelling was infested with kangaroos and wallabies and ran through flat scrubland as far as the eye could see in any direction. It was very isolated and at night even more so. Anyway, we were driving along at a slow pace, straining our eyes in our efforts not to hit a kangaroo, when all of a sudden out of the darkness I saw two green forms not only looming but seeming to advance upon us. They had very broad shoulders and narrow waists. There were long arms, but the heads and legs were not caught in the car headlights, so I didn't see them. They seemed so big and so humanoid in shape, and seemed to actually be coming for us, that I gasped so loudly that Vladimir asked me what was wrong. Well, of course, I knew immediately that I had seen two trees that were of the shape described and that the angle of the car headlights and our speed added to the illusion of humanoid shape and movement. Now the point of all the above is that I am aware that these are all separate incidents and that they are all entirely mundane in origin. I assure you I have a very vivid imagination which no doubt was a contributing factor. Nevertheless, I have not tried to find a meaning in the meaningless, but many people may indulge in that exercise and end up being researched as abductees. I bring this to your attention because I feel that the search for meaning is something that must be born in mind in abduction research, particularly when one considers the numbers of abductions are escalating. Cheers, Pony. -- Pony Godic - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Pony.Godic@f6.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vladimir.Godic@f7.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Vladimir Godic) Subject: Who is an Abductee? Date: 5 Jul 92 00:26:00 GMT > I must say that I am quite puzzled by your defense of the idea > that anybody who claims to be an abductee is therefore an > abductee. I had assumed that you would most certainly agree Since I never said or infered the above, I am puzzled by it. Nevertheless, lets's not get distracted by our mutual puzzlement. > with my position that every case must be competently > investigated before we can tell for sure what, if anything, > happened. I am afraid that I must strongly disagree with your > position. I believe that careful, systematic, investigation of > each and every case, regardless of claims, and regardless even > of consciously recalled memories, is of the utmost importance. I'm tempted to comment on the above in the context of it being a psychological ploy. But, let's keep it simple. I don't know what you perceive my position to be, however, it is a straight forward belief in information sharing and objective scientific investigation by those with the ability to do so. Of course, one cannot evaluate the worth of any research after publication in the popular media, especially when a wealth of background information is not shared. Again, I repeat my call for refereed works. > Science will not be advanced without the development of > methodology that will enable us to build the factual data to > which you allude in your message. > Methodology develops out of shared information, intelligent discussion and participation by more than one or two researchers. >I am also quite astonished by your statement that > "witnessed non-physical abductions involve all the elements of > non-witnessed abductions." I am assuming that by "non-physical > abductions" you mean those in which the person was witnessed to > be physically in place durign the alleged event. I must say > that in the 350 abductions that I have looked into and in the > many hundreds that Budd Hopkins has investigated, the channeled > abduction accounts, delusionary abduction accounts, invented > abduction accounts, and the like, made by people who might think > that they were abducted but who were not, are quite different > and easily recognizable by an experienced researcher. You > might wish to look at the books that Hopkins and I have written > and compare them to the information contained in the non- > physical abductions. I think that you will find that the > answer to the question that you correctly ask about whether > there is a difference between witnessed non-physical abductions > and non-witnessed (or for that matter, witnessed) physical > abductions, is most assuredly, yes. > It is interesting to note, that one researcher's conclusion may not be anothers, this is why information sharing, vigorous discussion and refereed articles, in intelligent journals, are so vital. > Keith Basterfield says that hypnosis is illegal in > Australia unless performed by an M.D. and that there are very > few of them in the country who have expressed any interest in > doing this type of work. I think that this state of affairs > has severely handicapped your effort to get to the truth of > what is happening in each event. I hope that this will soon > change. > Although we may not be suffering an inundation of abduction reports here in Australia, it doesn't mean that we lack the ability to objectively evaluate the subject as a whole. > I closing, let me reiterate that there are people who think > that they have been abducted and who have not. The Rodeghier > definition is good as far as it goes, but it needs revising on > several points not the least ow which is to allow for the role > of investigation in all cases. We are still in the sorting-out > stage of research and just because one researcher comes out > with a definition does not mean that it is writ in stone > forever. Without getting personal, I must in all honesty say that you, in company with Budd Hopkins, appear to present yourselves as "the" leading researchers with the experience and track record to have a more informed opinion than anyone else. This disturbes me, because no area of UFO research should be monopolised. There are other researchers contributing to abduction debate and just because they are not "the" researchers, doesn't mean their work is invalid. -- Vladimir Godic - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Vladimir.Godic@f7.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG ******************************************************************************** For permission to reproduce or redistribute this digest, contact: DOMAIN Michael.Corbin@paranet.org UUCP scicom!paranet.org!Michael.Corbin ****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T******************* Submissions UUCP {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!abduct Submissions DOMAIN abduct@scicom.alphacdc.com Admin Address abduct-request@scicom.alphacdc.com FTP Archive grind.isca.uiowa.edu:/info/paranet/abduct Mail to private Paranet/Fidonet addresses from the newsletters: DOMAIN firstname.lastname@paranet.org UUCP scicom!paranet.org!firstname.lastname ****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************